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Post on the Paneristi fb group 
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Post Post on the Paneristi fb group
I have just seen this post on the Paneristi fb group. As you can imagine there is a huge discussion and condemnation about all the project that have been carried among this comunity and other replica forums in the past..

If you care to read you have to ask the moderators to allow access into the Paneristi fb group and have a read..

Seems that a guy named Mark Hollis posted his fake 3646 and started this issue..I am not 100% sure but I suppose so after reading the post (see picture). If the moderators or members of the HF know who he is they could IMO ban him from him since we do not need 1000's pairs of unwanted eyes on out hobby.

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:25 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
That's amperes trying to damage someone's reputation. (maybe he is talking about Mark Midlands but I am not sure).

Jose was warned once for doing that on this forum.

On the other hand, selling reps as genuine is not OK. (if someone is really doing that, that is)

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:42 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
What a mess! I have no fb nor do I plan to join the 'risti there. Is it possible to have an extract of the discussion?

Anyway, funny how amperes (Jose) is calling us fakers now. I'm surprised he's still allowed to post there after the flame he caused by calling hammer's 6154 a fake and questioning Ehlers and Wiegmann's sources :roll:

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:47 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
Discussion so far / answers

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:21 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
I guess there is nothing to worry about after reading those comments. The forum is still safe.

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:07 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
It´s a sad read, mainly because Jose has been here for a long time, you don´t shit where you eat in my world. I think that Jose should explain this, or just be banned. It is nothing personal, this is for HF - I have had many interesting chats with him, but it is not acceptable to do a thing like this.

There has been, and always will be, discussions like this, the best thing is to not react and the fire will die.

Mark Hollis is Mark Midlands, just to confirm Emilio. I have no interest in flaming anyone here. I don´t know if Mark has sold, or tried to sell, or just shown "not genuine" parts or watches, and I don´t care much either. I wear and buy what I want and I don´t care much about prices and trademarks, I go for quality and special creations and that´s why I support HF, all the way.


Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:50 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:52 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
Different Mark then?

Seems suspicious indeed.

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:06 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
I know Jose, I have read it. Thanks.

Still, with all due respect and nothing personal against you, but I think that it would be appropriate to choose side here. I know that you have been hunting and revealing fake stuff among the alleged genuine ones presented here and there, but please do choose where your home is. I respect you and you have come up with a lot of good stuff, let us remember that and not the malodour from a cyber war where there are no winners.


Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:09 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
emilio666 wrote:
Different Mark then?

Seems suspicious indeed.


Mark Hollis in the real world is Mark Midlands here, as far as I know. Unless there is one out there who is using his name as an alias.


Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:11 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
Dang... DRAMA... I gots the popcorn out!!!

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:26 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
Mark Midlands has been missing for a while. It would be nice if he could contact us.

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:36 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
I have absolutely no issues with people building their own watches, never had. I guess that some of the most passionate Panerai enthusiasts can be found in this very place. Decent people who build watches for themselves are not fakers imo.

However, the parts have reached a level of accuracy where it becomes very difficult for most people to separate the copy from the original. This is a very fertile ground for people with questionable motivations. Mark Hollis has been enhancing fake watches from Italy for his great mentor in order to sell them off and, he has been bragging around that he sold two watches with chileantiques movements for 60k each.

One of those watches was offered in collector circles and of course, I was also asked for my opinion. It turned out that watch had a chileantiques conversion in it. After connecting the dots it became evident that the watch had been manipulated by Mark Hollis.

I exposed that watch on paneristi fb as well, you just need to scroll down a bit.

However, Mark Hollis is not only waving his builds in public, he is also trying to pass them off as the real deal and, if the price is right... he obviously is also willing to defraud people by selling them a fake watch.

This isn't the spirit of HF afaik, is it?


Best


And for the record, dear mods, I saw this coming. It was only a matter of time until a person of his character would get sucked in by the dark side...


Last edited by amperes on Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:49 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
amperes wrote:
I have absolutely no issues with people building their own watches, never had. I guess that some of the most passionate Panerai enthusiasts can be found in this very place. Decent people who build watches for themselves are not fakers imo.

However, the parts have reached a level of accuracy where it becomes very difficult for most people to separate the copy from the original. This is a very fertile ground for people with questionable motivations. Mark Hollis has been enhancing fake watches from Italy for his great mentor in order to sell them off and, he has been bragging around that he sold two watches with chileantiques movements for 60k each.

One of those watches was offered in collector circles and of course, I was also asked for my opinion. It turns out that watch had a chileantiques conversion in it. After connecting the dots it became evident that the watch had been manipulated by Mark Hollis.

I exposed that watch on paneristi fb as well, you just need to scroll down a bit.

However, Mark Hollis is not only waving his builds in public, he is also trying to pass them as the real deal and, if the price is right... he obviously is also willing to defraud people by selling them a fake watch.

This isn't the spirit of HF afaik, is it?


Best


No, it is not the spirit of anything, it is a sad read and of course it should not take place at all.


Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:59 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
Good words Michael!

It's crap what makes mark. These people we do not need here!


Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:34 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
Well then, first and foremost my apologies to amperes for taking Mark's side at first. It appears I was wrong.
If what I read here is true (and it really seems so) there are no excuses for what's been done.
This puts shame into our hobby, such behaviour can't be allowed.

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River welded lugs
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River 6154 cream dial
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:45 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
This is not cool. :wtf: Mark has posted this very watch here on HF a few months ago: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41142 (exact same picture used on HF and in FB thread). After reading the FB messages revealed here, this quote from that HF post doesn't look good for Mark:

mark_midlands wrote:
Thanks buddy, few bits are not gen but I'll fix that soon enough :thumbup:


Maybe some parts are gen, sure, but if so it's a Franken-ish build he is trying to sell as the real deal. Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe Mark bought this in the late 90s in Birmingham and then spent the past six years involved in HF without showing this to us until a few months ago ...

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:50 am
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
------

This is not cool :shock:

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Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
My remarks were meant as to try to not create too much attention to HF, nothing else. It may have been taken as something else, which it wasn´t meant to. It was easy to find Neuhausen back then and I assume it will be as easy to find Mark Hollis. We can´t have all kinds of people here, starting to piss gasoline in our fire.


Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Post on the Paneristi fb group
Nobody is buying pams anyways.. lol


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Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:24 pm
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